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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987-07-28MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF ME EULESS CITY COUNCIL July 28, 1987 CALL TO ORDER 1987 -116 A regular meeting of the Euless City Council was called to order at. 8 :O5 p.m., on Tuesday, July 28, 1987, in the Council Chambers of the Euless Municipal. Building, by Mayor Harold D. Samuels. Those present were Councilmembers Ray Ozebek, Ron Sternfels, Carolyn Park, and Bob Eden. Mayor Pro Tem Glenn D. Walker was absent. Staff Members Present W. M. Sustaire, City Manager. Tom I-Iart, Assistant City Manager Kay Rainey, City Secretary Bob McFarland, City Attorney Linda Lux, Administrative Secretary Steve Norwood, Management Intern Janes Knight, City Engineer Visitors Michael Roset.t:i. Edward J. Denari Leigh Chu Wayne Brewer Joan Harrington Fred Bowers C. E. Bright and other interested parties PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Councilman Ray Ozebek led the pledge of allegiance. INVOCATION The invocation was given by Mayor Harold D. Samuels. 1.987 -117 Euless City Council Regular Meeting July 28, 1987 - Page. Two ITEM NO 1: PRESENTATION OF SERVICE PINS Mayor Samuels presented a ten-year pin. to Bob Phillips, Greenhouse Supervisor. Mayor Samuels extended his and the City Council's thanks and appreciation for his hard work and years with the City. NEW BUSINESS ITEM NO. 2: CONSIDERATION OF PLATTING P -87 -07 Mr. Eden moved to approve revised preliminary plat of the Main Centre Addition, totaling 11.29 acres of land located between Shields Pharmacy and Gateway Auto Supply on North Main Street and with. frontage on Mimes Drive on the west, in addition to the frontage on North Main Street, in accordance with the recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission. Mrs. Park seconded the motion. Ayes: Mr. Eden, Mrs. Park, Messrs. Ozebek and Sternfels Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 3: CONSIDERATION OF PLATTING P -87 -OS Mr. Ozebek :moved to approve final plat of Lot 2, Block A, Main. Centre Addition, totaling 0.471 acres of land located north of Lot 1, Block A, Main centre Addition on the west side of North Main Street, in accordance with the recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission. Mr. Sternfels seconded the motion. Ayes: Mr. Ozebek, Messrs. Sternfels, Eden and Mrs. Park Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the. motion carried. ITEM NO. 4: CONSIDERATION OF AN EXTENSION OF PLATTING P -86 -10 Mrs. Park moved to approve a request of Texas Longhorn Management Company, Ltd., for a six month extension to December 25, 1987, of Lot 1., Block A, Glade Road, Southland Addition. Mr. Eden seconded the motion. Ayes: Mrs. Park, Messrs. Eden, Sternfels and Ozebek Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. 1987 -118 Euless City Council Regular Meeting July 28, 1987 - Page Three ITEM NO. 5z PUBLIC .BEARING FOR ZONING CASE NO. 87-09 Mayor Samuels explained the public hearing process and opened the public hearing for Zoning Case No. 87 -09, a request of Racetrac. Petroleum Inc,, for a change of zoning on a portion of Tract 1J1A of the A. J. Huitt Survey, Abstract 6814, totaling 0.89 acres, from its present zoning of C-2 to C -2 with a Specific Use Permit for a general business pole sign of increased height and area. Ms. Joan Harrington, Plano, Texas, real estate representative for. Racetrac Petroleum, was present requesting a 171 square foot sign with a height of 28 feet, which would allow visibility to passing motorists. Mayor Samuels asked if there were any other proponents for the zoning change. There being none, he asked if there were any opponents to the zoning change. `here being none and no further questions from the Council, the public hearing was closed. Mr. Sternfels moved to approve Zoning Case No. 87 -09 as presented to the City Council, and in accordance with the recommendation of the Planning and. Zoning Commission. Mr. Ozebek seconded the motion. Ayes: Mr. Sternfels, Messrs. Ozebek and Eden Nays: Mrs. Park Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 6: AUDIENCE REQUESTED BY MARTIN V. CASE, JR. Mr. Michael Rosetti, Attorney, 1400 W. Abram Street, Arlington, Texas, spokesman for Morrisd.ale Estates homeowners was present regarding the flooding of Sulphur' Branch Creek. Mr. Rosetti stated the homeowners are asking that (1) something be done on. a Local level even though other entities are involved; (2) for continual efforts to work with other surrounding cities; and (3) a timetable for what the city w :i..11 he able to do to implement a plan for an immediate solution along with working on a long term solution. Mrs. Park stated that the July 9, 1987, meeting at the Euless City Complex discussed the problem of flooding along Sulphur Branch and the possible long term solutions that might be available. It was suggested that the cities of Euless, Hurst, and Bedford petition the Carps of Engineers to conduct an overall study of the drainage from Sulphur Branch in }Bedford, on south to the Trinity River, If the Corps does this, it can recommend to the federal government that it consider partial funding of the project to eliminate or reduce the flooding along the creek. (City Secretary's Notation. Those in attendance at the July 9, 1987, meeting were the cities of .Euless, Hurst, Bedford, and Fort Worth, Tarrant County, Mk &T Railroad, Texas State Department of Highways and Public Transportation, Trinity River Authority, Corps of Engineers, Elliott: and Hughes, Inc., and representatives of the Morrisdale homeowners.) 1987-119 Euless City Council Regular Meeting July 28, 1987 - Page Four Mr. Sternfels suggested that perhaps a retention basin in Bedford, just to the north of West Pipeline Road where Sulphur Branch enters Euless, might relieve some of the flooding, at least on a temporary basis until the ultimate solution can be obtained. An unidentified person asked if the City could clean out the portion of Sulphur. Branch that is south of Woodvine. Mr. Sustaire advised that he had a contractor that was ready to begin work as soon as permission could be obtained from the homeowners for access to the creek area. Mr. Edward Denari asked that. the City make the resolution of this flooding problem a top priority. Much discussion was had concerning the problem, and Mayor. Samuels advised those in attendance that the City was indeed seeking a solution to the flooding of homes in the Morrisdale area. ITEM NO. 7: AUDIENCE REQUESTED BY LLOYD JOHNSON Mr. Lloyd Johnson, 118 Karen Lane, Knob H:i.11. Homeowner Association, was present regarding problems at Knob Hili. Mobile. Horse Park, The homeowners are requesting that. they (1) be allowed to build carports and (2) change the side yard setback on one side from ten feet to five feet minimum. Mr. Eden moved to have the City Attorney prepare an ordinance to allow these changes for consideration at the next Council meeting. Mr. Ozebek seconded the motion. Ayes: Messrs. Eden, Ozebek, Sternfels and Mrs. Park Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 8: AUDIENCE REQUESTED BY SANDRA EDDY Ms. Sandra Eddy, Trinity Arts Council., was present requesting funding from the Hotel /Motel Tax Fund for $2,500 for "Summer 87 in the Park" current program and $5,750 for the 1987-1988 fiscal year program. Mr. Sternfels moved to approve the $2,500 for the current year and to consider the remainder of the amount at a later date. Mr. Ozebek seconded the motion. Ayes: Messrs. Sternfels, Ozebek, Sternfels and Mrs. Park Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. 1987-120 Euless City Council Regular Meeting July 28, 1987 - Page Five ITEM NO 9: CONSIDERATION OF AN ORDINANCE Mr, Eden moved to approve first reading of an ordinance amending Article 11, Sections 7 -25, 7-27, 7 -28, and 7 -29 of Chapter 7 of the Euless Code of Ordinances entitled "Crass and Weeds," by repealing and replacing those sections in their entirety, and by the addition of a new section 7 -31 thereto; establishing regulations for grass, weeds, and uncultivated plants; providing for the cutting and removal of grass, weeds, and uncultivated plants by the City of Euless. Mr. Sternfels seconded the motion. Ayes: Messrs. Eden, Sternfels, Ozebek and Mrs, Park Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 10: CONSIDERATION OF AN ORDINANCE Mr. Ozebek moved to approve first reading of an ordinance amending Ordinance No. 347, the comprehensive zoning code of the City of Euless, Texas, to provide for special use permits for half -way houses, restitution centers and other facilities utilized for the housing of criminal offenders. Mr. Eden seconded the motion. Ayes: Messrs. Ozebek, Eden, Sternfels and Mrs. Park Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 11: CONSIDERATION OF AN ORDINANCE Mr. Sternfels moved to approve first reading of an ordinance amending Ordinance No, 347, the comprehensive zoning code of the City of Euless, Texas, to provide for special use permits for seasonal, parking lot, sidewalk, truckload, and other temporary outside sales, with limitations thereon, in non - residential zoning districts. Mrs. Park seconded the motion. Ayes: Mr. Sternfels, Mrs. Park, Messrs. Eden and Ozebek Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. 1987 -121 Euless City Council Regular Meeting July 28, 1987 - Page Six ITEM NO 12: CONSIDERATION OF AN ORDINANCE Mrs. Park moved to approve first reading of an ordinance authorizing and allowing "Updated Service Credits': for the Texas Municipal Retirement System, for service performed by qualifying members of such system who presently are in the employment of the City of Euless; providing for increased prior and current service annuities for retirees and beneficiaries of deceased retirees of the City. Mr. Eden seconded the motion. Ayes: Mrs. Park, Messrs. Eden, Ozebek and Sternfels Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 13: CONSIDERATION OF AN ORDINANCE Mr. Sternfels moved to approve first reading of an ordinance affecting participation of city employees in the Texas Municipal Retirement System; granting the additional right.:, credits and benefits authorized by Sections 64.20 2(f), 64.204, 64.40.5, 64.406 and 64.410 of Title 1.1013, Revised Civil Statutes of Texas, 1925, as amended by the 70th Legislature. Mr. Ozebek seconded the motion. Ayes: Messrs. Sternfels, Ozebek, Eden and Mrs. Park Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 14: CONSIDERATION OF APPOINTING AUDITORS Mr. Sternfels moved to approve Arthur Young and Company, of Fort Worth for the audit of the year ending September 30, 1987. Mrs. Park seconded the motion. Ayes; Mr. Sternfels, Mrs. Park, Messrs. Ozebek and Eden Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. 1987-122 Euless City Council Regular Meeting July 28, 1987 - Page Seven ITEM NO.. 15: CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION NO. 87 -654 Mr. Sternfels moved to approve. Resolution No. 87 --654 regarding the City of Euless participation in the Fort Worth Consortium for Employment arid. Training Program through Jung. 30, 1988. Mr. Ozebek seconded the motion. Ayes: Messrs. Sternfels, Ozebek, Eden and Mrs. Park Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 16: CONSTI)ERATION OF AUTHORIZING EXECUTION OF DOCUMENTS Mr, Ozebek moved to approve the execution of documents, including an easement and right-of -way, and a temporary construction easement, in connection with the Bear Creek Relief Interceptor - Section II Project, Parcel ?i5, for Trinity River Authority. Mrs. Park seconded the motion. Ayes: Mr, Ozebek, Mrs. Park, Messrs. Eden and Sternfels Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motion carried. ITEM NO. 1.7: CITY MANAGER'S REPORT Mr. Sustaire stated that he had nothing to report. ITEM NO. 18: CITY ATT'ORNEY'S REPORT Mr. McFarland stated that he had nothing to report, ITEM NO. 19: CITY SECRETARY'S REPORT (A) Board /Commission Appointments Mayor Samuels appointed Carolyn Park, Alice Ernest and Bob Phillips as a committee to receive plants awarded by the State. (B) Minutes The minutes of June 9, 1987 were approved, subject to the verification of the motion for Item 3 regarding Zoning Case No. 87-05. 1987 -123 Euless City Council Regular- Meeting July 28, 1987 - Page Eight ITEM NO. 20: CITY ENGINEER'S REPORT Mrs. Park moved to approve the following items for payment: (A) authorization to process final payment to 1? Brothers for repainting and installing Cathodic Protection - North Main Street 1.0 MG Elevated Water Storage Tank; (E) authorization to process final payment to SRO Asphalt, Inc., for Construction of Access Driveway Improvements at South Euless Park; (C) authorization to process final payment for signalization light at Fuller -Wiser Road and Ash Lane. The signal has been in operation for about two months. Mr, Sternfels seconded the motion, Ayes: Mrs. Park, Messrs. Sternfels, Ozebek and Eden Nays: None (D) Mrs. Park moved to approve the authorization to execute right-of-way easements to Arco Pipeline for the extension of Bear Creek Parkway. Mr. Eden seconded the motion. Ayes: Mrs. Park, Messrs. Eden, Ozebek and Sternfels Nays: None Mr. Ozebek moved to approve: (E,) authorization to close Fuller- Wiser Road from Glade Road to Mid-Cities for temporary road work for lowering Arco gas line. The City Council requested signs be posted one week prior to closing of streets to inform residents. Mr, Sternfels seconded the motion. Ayes: Messrs, Ozebek, Sternfels, Eden and Mrs, Park Nays: None Mayor Samuels declared the motions carried. 1987 -124 Euless City Council Regular Meting July 28, 1987 - Page Nine ADJOURNMENT' There being no further business before the Council, the meeting was adjourned at 11 :40 p.m, ATTEST: i V Kay Rainey City Secretary APPROVED: L) Harold D. Samuels, Mayor 1987-125 MINUTE BOOK NOTATION The following 37 pages are not part of the official minutes for the City Council meeting of July 28, 19S7; however, they are included for information purposes only. T}e, following pages are: 32 pages of ¥erbat m testimony of Item 6 I. page of agenda for the July 9, 1987 Sulphur Branch meeting 1 page of attendees for the July 9, 1937 meeting .3 pages of .minutes for the July 9, 1987 meeting Kay Rainey, City Secretary August 3 1, 1987 1987 -126 ITEM NO. 6: AUDIENCE REQUESTED BY MARTIN V. CASE, JR. Mr. Michael Rossetti, Attorney, 1400 W. Abram Street., Arlington, Texas, spokesman for Morrisdale. Estates homeowners, was present regarding the flooding of Sulphur Branch Creek. Verbatim testimony of the remainder of this agenda item follows. Rossetti: I am basically here to be sort of a spokesperson to help and assist the city of Euless to do what is necessary to try to eliminate the problem to the extent possible and to present the viewpoint -- what I think is the viewpoint of the homeowners that I represent. Very briefly, as T believe everybody; is aware of, these folks live along the Sulphur Branch drainage area, in an area of Euless that is bounded by Bedford on one side and by Hurst on another side, and there has been continuous development, particularly in Bedford, and it has become apparent over the last few years that the drainage culvert. that runs alongside these folks' houses is insufficient to handle the run off generated by the increased development in the Bedford area It is a multi-jurisdictional problem and has been stated and was stated in the meeting of July 9, 1987; however, the homeowners want to be sure that the city understands that their position is also that not only is it a multi-jurisdictional problem, but it's also a local problem, very real to them. in speaking with Mr. McFarland yesterday, he told me that the. City Council shares some of the frustrations that the homeowners have had regarding this problem, and again, 1. believe the homeowners truly appreciate that What I'm here for is to try to outline a thumbnail sketch of the homeowners' position and what they would propose that the city undertake to do to try to alleviate the problem. First of all, it's :important to them that something be dorie on the local level, and if -° when you bring in other cities and you bring in the railroad and highway departments, there is a tendenc:y::perhaps. for everybody to say, "Well, I'll start when you start," and I think that some of that occurred in the July 9th meeting. It may be that -- that -- that. these folks' problems cannot be fully solved until. the -- the °° the entire area is addr =essed, Nevertheless, T think the engineers will tell you that. improvement - small improvement may make the difference -- that. in a particular rainstorm it may make a difference as to whether the water is in a backyard or is in a kitchen. So, what the homeowners would ask the city to do would be to initially at the local level to make a determination as to what is necessary to improve the channel to the greatest extent possible with economic feasibility and in that regard they would ask the city to come up with a specific proposal, or as to how the city can obtain funds, how it can get a study done as what's necessary, and what needs to be done in order to improve the drainage channel so that its the best it can he My understanding is that Elliott and Hughes have already done a study previously for the city, and indeed -- I haven't reviewed that study, but indeed the city may have some idea already as to what is necessary to :make that drainage channel as good as it can be, Secondly, the homeowners ask the city to continue its efforts to work with the cities of Bedford and Hurst and the railroad, the highway department, and any other entities involved in order to additionally come up with an overall solution while at the same time addressing the local problem. The homeowners would, I think, go a little bit beyond the stage of just asking the city of Euless to just work with these other entities, and in that regard, it's my understanding, for instance, that the city of Bedford is getting ready to put in -- to widen its drainage easement just above where my clients' properties are located. Not only is the city of Bedford continuing to develop, but apparently they are going to improve the drainage easement right up north of our clients, and -- and -- and I'm not certain of what the effect of that will be; however, my clients are properly concerned about that. There is some precedent that. I aim aware of for some action against a municipality that knowingly develops upstream knowing that 1987-127 that development is going to cause flooding downstream, without taking any steps to those folks downstream, and all I'm saying at this point is that we -- we -- we would like the city of Euless to make some kind of commitment that -- that °- that when the city of Bedford or Hurst or any other entity is about to act, that they know that not only will they have to look to the citizens of Euless, but that they will also have to look to the city of Euless itself in that regard. I am not clear on how the extent to which the city of Euless can stand in the shoes of the homeowners and bear the burden of this, but I think :it's something that we would certainly ask the city to look into and consider, and let me he clear that, at this point 1 am talking about primarily working with these other cities and entities. On the other hand, it appears to me that things are about to get worse in a hurry, and that something may need to be done, and 1 believe the initial thing would be to contact somebody from the city of Bedford and find out what's going or in Bedford. f certainly offer my services in that regard to work with Mr. McFarland or anyone else with the city of Euless along those lines to determine what can be done to encourage the other municipalities to work in a way that's in the best interest of the city of Euless and the citizens of the city of Euless. Finally, the third thing that -- that -- that the homeowners would ask for would be some kind of timetable as to a plan for what the city of Euless would be willing to do and what we're looking at would just be some kind of reasonable timetable as to when the citizens can expect to get some idea. from the city what steps they plan on trying to undertake in order to solve the problem. Of course, they'll also be interested in some kind of timetable on following up on that for implementing whatever plan is ultimately enacted. The citizens, I think, feel that they want to continue to cooperate with the city, but -- but -- but that -° that -- that something does need to be done in short order. They've had continued flooding which seems to he getting worse. They appreciate the city's efforts. I know the city has removed a road along the Sulphur Branch drainage area that may have contributed to the problem, but itisebecomeeapparent that is not sufficient to solve the problem, so time is of the essence. The rainy season's coming and the additional water may begin to erode the Sulphur Branch drainage creek and some of our client's properties. So that -- that would. be a rough outline of -- of what I think the homeowners would be looking for. If there's anything else I can help you all with, or answer any questions, I'll he happy to do so. Some of the homeowners themselves might want, to speak also. Mayor Harold Samuels: If 1 may ask --- I was in Amarillo when the meeting was held -- but I've read the minutes three or four times and talked to some people that were there -- the comment about the widening of the drainage easement within Bedford, did that cone up in that meeting, or was that some other information that you were able to pick up? Rossetti: That's some outside hearsay information that I've picked up and 1 just don't know -- My understanding is that somebody out there has seen some stakes and it appears as though they're getting ready to widen that drainage way. Councilwoman Carolyn Parks Mr. Mayor, the comment was made that the drainage from the land development had been enlarged, but. not anything was said about the channel itself. Mayor: Okay. I even heard -- we're talking about rumors, now -- I can't remember who said this to me or I would say -- but someone in the last few weeks has said to me that they understood that Bedford was going to be coming to the city of Euless to see if we would participate or allow the openings under Pipeline Road to he enlarged. And as I said that was not in any means of an official request, but I told that person they were kind of wasting their time because until we get some relief from our city limits south, you know, 1987 -128 were certainly not going to open it up for any additional water to flow from the north. I'm not sure that what's in there now is particularly restrictive, but we certainly are not going to do anything to allow additional water to get there faster, as such Park; I think that that was discussed in like an over all plan of various things that needed to be done and Bedford stated that they would like to do that, and our assistant city manager said that at what time that all these things would come into place, that we would participate in that, but that was talking about on down the line Mayor; -- with the other downstream stuff. Okay. I might ask our attorney, and I'm not -- probably haven't had -- I'm not sure that we as a city have been involved in any, but you may from some other standpoint -- generally- mentioned about the upstream. water and what. we - -- City Attorney .Bob McFarland: Mike and I have chatted -- Mr.. Rossetti -- over two or three occasions here, and I think he's accurately restated the nature of those discussions. Mike made it clear, and 1 appreciate his comments, that he's not here in an adversary role, but basically as a spokesperson for the Morrisdal =e residents in trying to effectuate some resolution to this as expeditiously as possible, and T know that indeed is the city's intentions, and I think the cooperative attitude. of Commissioner Hampton and the others at the meeting is reflective of that, The problem and I guess it's one basically of hydraulics as to where we go -- there's no doubt that upstream development is going to continue, and as this area continues to develop; there's going to be additional watershed. The problem is the channel. is insufficient to carry it. The report, as I understand it -- and Tom, I think you and James were both there -- is basically that right now the removal of the Bluebonnet. Bridge did indeed effect a benefit to those homeowners who had. ester: n...their homes for "X" hours rather than r'Y" clays, 1. realize that's slight improvement, but by the same token, I think it was apparent that that did assist. to some extent. My understanding downstream is that we now additionally have the existing bridge or culverts on ten which basically produce a backup effect that until those are widened, we can't have additional relief downstream. We do have some channelization problems further on in Hurst. Then we have the railroad bridge that provides a further obstruction. 1 guess a concern I'm asking -- and certainly I think we need to probably work with Bedford -- I hate to use the phrase "place them on notice," but 1 think we should at least make Bedford aware that we cannot afford to have additional improvements with additional drainage into this watershed and /or increased flow into this watershed by way of a velocity until such time as some downstream, as the Mayor suggested, :improvements are made. I guess a question I would ask is that we have. here a channel that was developed by a developer. --- a development that was put in place by a developer many many years ago with what has become an inadequate channel to carry the velocity of the flow. Now can the improvements be effected downstream with the channelization that. Hurst will be required to undertake? And assume that you have that increased channelization south though Hurst, you do get relief through the highway department on the ten bridge, or culvert; you do get relief or cooperation from the railroad relative to its bridge and 'trestle; is that going to alleviate the problem without further widening of the channelization through Morrisdale and which would constitute apparently a close taking or at least an enlargement sufficient to at least come close to some of the homes there? And by way of background for those of you who aren't aware, the city has had this matter and looked at it for many years. One of the first assignments 1 had as a city attorney- ten years ago, think, was out at Mr, Cases' house standing in a bridge, and watching the waters recede away from his home.. Today looking at the. channelization there., widening the channel far enough to affect the avoidance of restriction, you are 1987 -129 almost coming from back door to back door. At least that was one proposal at one time. Can the downstream improvements be made and effectively carry away the velocity that would be encountered without having to widen the actual Morrisdale drainage easements? And for those of you who are not aware of it we attempted to acquire right -of -ways from homeowners within the Morrisdale Addition to affect that channelization and widening and clearance on many, occasions, and many of the -- some of the homeowners in Morrisdale willingly agreed to those improvements, others refused, and the city was just not in the financial wherewithal at the time to have to go out and acquire the right-of-ways from some neighbors to be able to affect benefit to the other neighbors. 1 guess my question bottom line is from what you've seen and your attendance at the meeting, can this problem be resolved if you got Hurst, the highway department, the railroad, all in cooperation working with Euless to effectuate sufficient improvements to that watershed to allow one hundred year flood plain run off without having to take property in that channel? City Engineer James Knight: Preliminary drainage analysis has been completed, as Mr. Rossetti mentioned, by Elliott and Hughes -- :indicate that the existing drainage right -of -way that exists through a portion of Morrisdale Addition is roughly sixty feet in width. Preliminary studies indicate this is not sufficient width. to construct a channel that would convey the hundred year return frequency event. McFarland: Some of the enlargement, James, do you have any indications yet., would it go up to seventy, would it take up to ninety, or do we even know? Knight: The minimum channelizat.ion that we looked at had a sixty foot bottom width and side slopes that sloped one and a half vertical, one horizontal, or pretty near perpendicular, had about a nine foot depth of flow through the channel, I believe. McFarland: What was it at. the top? It was sixty at the bottom; was a one and a one and a half up? Knight.: It varies because of the nature of the depth of the channel and some of the area would be in depths greater than the nine feet, but basically it ranged from a :minimum width of about ninety feet to one hundred feet in width at the top. McFarland: At the top? Knight: At the top. McFarland: What is the existing width generally, of the channel, at the top now? Knight: Basically I would say that the fences are on the easement lines, that it would be sixty feet in width at the top. McFarland: So took from both sides an additional twenty foot -- on both sides --- Knight: There is some encroachment of fences and buildings to the east that we're aware of. Park: The property lines, however, go from east to west, encompassing the entire creek. 1987 -130 McFarland: I recollect that the property owners all own to the center line of the creek with the drainage easement.. (Transcriber's Notation: At this point there are several people talking at once and the words cannot be understood.) Park: - -- from east to west - -- McFarland.: - -- to the adjacent property line where - -- Park: - -- from the west side of the creek. Mayor: Are the lots the longest. if they're on the east side or the other way? Park: Yes, longest on the east section. Knight: Now, that is the portion that's south of Woodvine Drive. Mayor: That's where most of the flooding is, at least where the water got in the homes. l know there's been some erosion up above. x think all the water that's gotten in the homes has been south - -- Unknown: - -- north of Woodvine. That's not true. Manor: Not true? Okay. All right. How far up stream? Is it near the bridge? Those of you who have had water? Unknown: All the way up to 1208. It's up there where - -- Mayor: Was this in the May rain -- the heavy rain in May -- was when that happened? Prior to that time, those of you north of the bridge ---- Unknown: That's the highest it's ever been. We've been there twelve years. in the house, a little but not much. Mayor: Did it come up from the street, rather -- it didn't corne off -- didn't run off trying to get to the creek? Unknown: kids were out in the street wading up to their waist -- the water was running from the creek into the street and then as it receded, it ran into the creek. Mayor: I did not know that. We may have that -- The city staff may know, hut T did not. T thought it had all been south. McFarland: James, do we have data yet that would reflect a proposed final course of the channel improvements through the Morrisdale Addition that would be necessary in any event to finally alleviate the problem, assuming we even got cooperation from the highway department:, Hurst., railroad, et al? Is there anything that Mr. Rossetti and take. and show his homeowners and say, twenty more feet of your back yard is going to be necessary to effectuate the final improvements of the drainage channelization of Morrisdale through Sulphur Branch "? Knight: The information that we have on hand at this time is based on just preliminary analysis out there. You could take it and say, generally, this is what will be required. It may be more or it may he less. 1987-1.31 McFarland.: Mike, one of the reasons l raise that question is because if all these citizens know the city has a limited amount of funds available for any project or all their projects, and to the extent that those funds are not necessary to the acquisition of right.- of-way and/or replacement of existing improvements, i.e. move a fence in ten feet or whatever, it just means that amount more money that can be devoted perhaps to the actual. improvement costs of the channel. And 1 think one of the problems that the city is going to he faced with is going to be ultimately the cost of improvements there to what extent any participation can be obtained from the county, corps of engineers, highway department, and so on, on improvements -- but anything that reduces bottom line. Parke Mr. McFarland, its my personal opinion from attending that meeting on July 9th that the city would be prudent to go ahead as suggested by Tom Vogt, the Corps of Engineers representative who was here, for the three cities, Hurst, Euless, and Bedford, to petition the Corps of Engineers, who in turn would petition the federal government, and upon approval of that petition, would conduct a study of the entire area involved, and that this would be the first possible step to take. 1 know that we are all wanting immediate results and -- but permanent long -term results would take probably from three to five years -- but I was encouraged by the highway department saying that if the three cities would go ahead and petition and the Corps of Engineers got the approval of their petition through the federal government, that then perhaps -- and I'm saying perhaps -- and I. would like to have that underlined because it wasn't a promise -- that the highway department could then in turn would go ahead and initiate action to enlarge those culverts at Highway 10 which perhaps would give us some immediate help. I. don't know -- we might come up with other things that we could do that would give immediate help, but. - -- McFarland: Carolyn, would the corps if it was autho ;zed under__the:. projectx. would it come in and do the final planning, take the preliminary- studies as - -- Park: Yes, and they're the ones that would tell us if K" number of feet, would that really solve the problem. we would find perhaps if all the houses could be taken or if they could not be taken out of the flood plain personal opinion that is the way to bo down the line, it would be the ultimate solution and the final solution for the Corps of Engineers -- through federal funding, by the way. we widen the channel " ? think that from that out of the flood plain But as 1 said, it's my and even though we're looking way on Rossetti.: If I might respond to that -- .I believe I speak for the homeowners that I've spoken with that feel that -- that they agree certainly that -- that should he done and to the extent that the city should work with the Corps of Engineers to try and get any federal aid or funds or anything else that's available; however, waiting for an overall long term solution to the exclusion of -- of doing what's necessary for the course of three to five years is not something that's in the best interest of the homeowners. I - -- Park: First of all, I'm not suggesting to wait to do anything in the three to five years. The three to five years -- In other words, if we want. a permanent ultimate long term solution, I think we are going to have to go that way, but 1 know we need some immediate results. (Transcriber's Notation: Begin Tape 2a.) Park: -- things that we could do to improve this problem, that's what we would have to come up with. 1987 -132 Rossetti: 1 think that the homeowners and I would certainly agree with that, that as long as its not a situation where you have got to wait for the overall - -- Park: I didn't propose that. Rossetti: But let me say something. I was involved with the city of Watauga who got involved with the Corps of Engineers and we were trying to obtain a local solution in that case, and the city of Watauga response was that the Corps ---- that they had to wait -- that once they got the Corps of Engineers involved, the Corps of Engineers wanted to implement their own -- have their own study done, which i can understand that -- before they extended the federal funds, and that the city of Watauga felt that its hands were tied as far as implementing a local solution until the Corps study would be done and finalized and that they got again in a situation where that it -- they said, "Well, we're sorry about your local problem, but we can't do anything until the Corps finishes and we're looking at three to five years." Park: No, we're talking about the long term ultimate permanent solution from three to five years probably four if it follows what Burst did, but the study itself can tell us what can be done, what are the problems, how ouch would you have to widen, what houses -- anything to take some of those houses out of the flood plain -- would take about three months for the study -- and then in getting the study, then we would know where to go from there. Rossetti: The overall Corps study? Park: The study -- the time frame -- He gave us a sheet. Do any of us have that? Mayor, do you? Mr. - -- Mayor: We have sent a letter to the Corps as the first' - city. They require one of the cities to be the lead city. We have sent that letter. Now that T know you are involved, I will ask the City Secretary to get: your address and send you a copy of it. We also have copied it to Bedford and Hurst and intend to follow that up with a resolution, T can't do a resolution without the Council, but S could do a .letter. So we are going to follow that up with a resolution to the other two cities asking the to join with us in the -- and as Carolyn said, probably in the long range going through the Corps proposal. Carolyn, I was not aware that the Corps could do that within three months ----- Park: I think that - -- Mayor: - -- in three months -- Park: - -- Mr. Vogt gave us a sheet that day with times like that, that's where I'm coming up with the from three to five years for the final dates, but he had each stage broken down with the study being completed within that time, and T can't remember where the other was. We're going to have to come up with that letter. Mayor: That's good. I didn't know they could move that fast. That's good to hear, I'd. like to comment, sir. 1 certainly think that all of the requests of the citizens are very reasonable, and although with the exception of Mrs. Park, none of the rest of us - -. she does live on the creek as you may or may not know. The rest of us do not, but I. think we share the same concerns, realizing it is not -- you know, if someone in your family passes away, the friends can emphasis, but they can't quite feel the same way, from losing that person, and I'm sure the same way that -- you'd pretty well have to have water in our homes, and some of us may not. have -- may not completely emphasize with them, 1987 -133 We -- I want to pursue this situation about the upstream water and have the attorney do some research on that. Councilman Ron Sternfels; Mr. Mayor, may I? One thing that we might be able to look into -- you just mentioned a point that I wanted to touch on -- is the problem has generally been caused by -- not caused, but increased perhaps, by generally upstream development. I'm not pointing any fingers here. I don't know -- saying anything as far as any sister city, but has there been any consideration -- I'm trying to remember whether I read this or whether the thought. just crossed my mind, or whether we talked about it at precouncii or council or -- of the possibility of the city of Bedford possibly putting in some type of a holding tank to retard the flow of water. They seem to have -- there's development, i believe, going up to the north - -- Park: There's a park directly to the north. Sternfel.s: - -- okay. Is there the possibility of some type of requirement there? Was that discussed at this meeting, or has it ever been discussed? Cutting the water down, cutting down on the volume flowing through. In other words, it appears if you cut down on the amount that is flowing, you don't need. as big a drainage area. Park: We did address that, but there was not anything that I can remember. Mr. Ozehek? Councilman Ray C}zebek: Yes, I do remember. The thing was the general consensus from -- in effect, if they wanted to be willing to give up their whole park, that might help, but retention takes some space. Right, Mr. Engineer? Knight: I don't recall that Bedford was overly receptive to the idea of dedicating their park to a retention basin. Ozebe.k: That is a fast answer, though. McFarland: A retention basin would have to Park.: Well, they might do that on a temporary basis, too. In other words, if that would relieve the situation immediately, realizing that if we ever got this thing solved, that they could reclaim that. slow could we approach them on St.ernfels: It would certainly be a stop gap solution if we could get their cooperation. And I. think that's really what I'm saying, that perhaps we need to loon: there. Unknown: I'm sure they wouldn't be too happy - -- Mayor: IM tell you, that if we approached it on a basis that it was a temporary thing of assistance on their part, and not one that would be forever, it might be -- I don't know. Park: I don't know what kind of expenditure something like that would take. Sternfels: Well, I personally would like to pursue that., I'd. like to see what we can find out in working with Bedford there, and for that -- perhaps, Mr. Attorney, you might - -- 1987-134 McFarland: Did the Corps indicate that they would also be going to provide both multistage solutions in the sense that you could temporarily address it here and the permanent solution would be here? Did they indicate that they right be able to provide alternate temporary diversions or solutions ? (Transcr:i.ber.'s Notation: At this point there are several people. talking at once and the words cannot be understood.) City Manager W. M. Sustaire: Tom, who don't you address - Assistant City Manager Tom Hart: They did not specify that, but that may be something in later conversations that we can address, What came out of the meeting -- in our analysis -- the benefit of getting the Corps in to look at the whole drainage area -- we have analyzed it and studied. it, and what came out of the meeting was that liurst had and Bedford had -- I did not get a clear understanding that there was a good overall analysis of the problem. I heard the Bedford attorney -- the Bedford engineer say no, he wasn't excited about giving up his park, but then I heard the Hurst. engineer sitting there saying he thought that was a potential solution, to catch the water there, Of course, it wasn't his park. That's become -- that became the strength of hopefully getting the Corps in to look at the over all situation. We specifically asked the Corps when we started seeing the time frame -- we specifically asked them at that meeting if we could actually fund the engineering analysis, instead of them, to get the process speeded up. The response we got -- maybe you guys heard it differently -- was their study would move fairly quickly. That wasn't the hold up. The hold up was once they got their study completed, getting through the bureaucracy of Washington. Now, T agree with her now -- the long term, now that's going to be a slow process, but I believe -- get that done fairly quickly. I'm going to go across and get the time. frame that they gave to us so we can know exactly - -- Park: A comment on the previous studies -- 1 think the general consensus was that each city has done studies, but things have changed so since then. In other words, when the studies were done, we weren't having all this water from up north coming in. If we hadn't had additional water in just this past year channeled into that channel, perhaps we wouldn't have flooded so much this last time. So the previous studies, I feel are fairly nil. James, do you concur, as far as the overall problem In other words, you can't really rely on what your previous findings were. Knight.: The drainage studies that we've had done to date are based on computer models developed by the Corps of Engineers and which -- the Corps of Engineers computer models were based on existing run off conditions within the watershed. We have upgraded those to reflect a more fully developed watershed. Park: So you findings are then more or less what they will find? Knight: I think they will what the Corps will find, Councilman Bob Eden: James, do we. not know that we need to get more drainage under Highway 10 and also we need to get more drainage under the railroad? What can we do to start the process to get that done short of spending all this time? Knight: The study has been done by both the city of Hurst and Euless at this point. Both point out that the structures under Highway 10 are insufficient as capacity as to convey the hundred year run off. I've not seen any studies that go so far on downstream as the railroad trestle, I think that everything 1987 -13.5 completed at this point is that if we open up the channels downstream to Highway 10 and increase the culvert capacity under Highway 10, and increase the channel capacity upstream to Highway 10, that it could possibly he affected by the railroad trestle. I think certainly before the final determination is made about how far you have to go for, you are going to have to look at that. Eden: But is not our most immediate need the channel _- the increased capacity of Highway 10? Knight: Increasing the culvert capacity of Highway 10 without ehannei.:i.zation both downstream and upstream of Highway 10 will not, in my opinion, solve the problem or have any great impact on it, Ozebek: Will it help it? That's what they're asking. Knight: It might help. To what extent, 1 think, would be minimal without channelization upstream and downstream of Highway 10. Mayor: Let me mention this, I am certainly not a hydraulic engineer, but. I was there the night of the flood. The people evidently -- it was one of the worst they've had, and the water was several feet over Highway 10, So although that -- and that to me proved that Highway 10 was inadequate, but at the same time the water was sufficiently over Highway 10 to that depth and went back upstream, that. I'm not sure that it was not greater down. there than it would have been upstream, and had Highway 10 not been there, I'm not sure it would have lowered the 7.evel or not enough to have kept the water out of those homes. As I said, I'm not an engineer, but it wasn't -- wasn't lust in the upper Highway 10, it was over the roadway, Eden: We've had one rain since then, I know, that the creek .was at least half full. or better during the middle of the day. I drove -iris -there and there's lots of water going through that. creek. Park: It doesn't take much of a rain anymore, though, Bob, because the drainage from up north -- so it doesn't take much of a ra:i.n for it to come, you know, over half way. Rossetti: It's my understanding now, that a hundred year storm is a statistical storm meaning a. certain testing rain -- and really what. that says is that its the probability of that size of a rain occurring in a single year is one percent. That, my understanding, is what the goal is to try to have sufficient channels if possible that wi.1.1 withhold and contain a hundred year storm. My understanding is that at this point in time, given current conditions, the majority of these folks now are in a two to three to five year flood plain. That doesn't necessarily mean that they'll flood every three to five years, but it weans they are going to flood a bunch. That, again, is part of the reason, ; think for the feeling of urgency. Anything that can be done to speed up the process -- if it means that maybe the city needs to be looking at what it can do to obtain the money necessary to make the improvements at the same time that waiting for fugal study, would be appreciated, if that's what it takes, that would be appreciated. My own personal belief is that, in my opinion, is, and I don't speak for the homeowners on this, and I will ask them about it -- my own personal belief is that we have -- there's sufficient data right now that can let --- to where it can be determined what needs to be done at least locally to make that drainage channel as best it can be, and that is independent of an overall plan, And my own personal feeling is that if we could have -- the homeowners could be given an idea as to what it would take to make that drainage ditch as good as it can be, we could approach the homeowners to see what they would be willing to do as far as usage of their property is 1987-136 concerned, and we can deal with it at that point, and -- and expedite matters in that way. I think that again the idea that we've got to wait. until it's perfect in order to do anything does not fit the situation. A fifty year flood plain is better than a five year flood plain, by far. 1 think that would be the position the homeowners. Mayor: Let me ask our staff sons preliminary -- but what was the study to the point of giving us past. I'm not sure whether it's because . know some of the folks in the past? tithing, James, the -- and T realize it was estimate -- or did the engineers carry the an estimate -- I know we've had one in the -- how up to date it is -- to do a lining -- have said that was the answer to the problem Knight: Within the existing right -of -way, the existing sixty foot right -of -way, there has been a preliminary cost estimate prepared -- from preliminary estimates of what degree of protection that would afford to the homeowners -- that preliminary estimate of the cost of that improvement for a concrete lined channel just along Sulphur Branch itself does not include the tributaries off to either side of it that we'd need to look at also, preliminary cost estimate was one million one hundred forty thousand dollars, This would be a concrete lined channel constructed within existing right -of -way that does not take into account a greater width. We feed that the highest degree of protection that might afford would be something, perhaps, the ten year event to possibly maximum twenty -five year event. What they are saying is there is probably still a four to ten percent in any given year that °° of the possibility of flooding of homes adjacent to the channel. Mayor: If that were done and then the Corp: of Engineers determined that it needed to be wider as our own studies have indicated -- and additional right. --of -way, then that money would be off, so to speak,,. because you couldn't really take that or utilize any particular portion bf'thate And I'm assuming that the larger channel is going to have to be something in excess of two million. I don't know, but it's doing a prorated ratio even if you don't have any costs of obtaining right - of-way to do the sixty foot lined bottom and then ninety to hundred foot at the top -- it's going to be something over two million, is that correct, or do we have any figures on that? Knight: We don't have any cost estimates on that basis. Eden: How do we get something started on this? From the channelization of that creek, if that would. in fact bring it up to a twenty -five year flood plain, or if we could get more right -of -way back there to make a wider channelization, how do we get started in that direction to give some help to that area without wasting a lot of money that's just waste and doesn't help? Mayor: First of all, we don't have the money to waste. I mean, I've thought about giving them some help, l just - -- Park: I'd like to make a correction, I said two to three months on the. study. It would be two to three months on the cursory evaluation of the federal. interest. In other words, to see if the federal government is even interested to do anything, and then the study, which. would just tell us what. could be done or what needs to be done, that's eight months. Eight months, instead of the -- what died T say -- two to three months. From two to three months was just for the acceptance of the federal government, and if they say okay, then they'll go on with the study. Sternfels: All the things we have talked about -- of course, the biggest thing is that it will take time, and I'd like to go back to some comments I made 19X7 -137 earlier, I think, if I may, I'd like to do what I can either directly through you, City Manager, to approach the city of Bedford to ask what can we do to work with the to look at a retention program upstream. I think that is the most immediate thing we can do -- is to approach the city of Bedford and say, what can you --- you generated some of this -- all right -- I'm not saving that they've generated it all __ but what can we do to retain some of this water to cut down on the through Morrisdale? And I mean from the standpoint of we want some immediate action perhaps. Su.st.airet Of course, we have a dialogue already established with Bedford relative to this drainage channel. We've not just ignored this situation. As to the retention in that area, it's going to be very negative on the part of Bedford. We will have to approach them with a demand that they do so. I don't know what I can do other than demand. We make threats of lawsuits if they do not, but I'd have to leave that to the attorney to respond as to what action we can take if they refuse, and I have in my mind that they are going to say no, but I'll ask, and I'1.1 insist, if that's the direction of this Council. I've already breached that situation with the city of Bedford, and it has been negative. I've looked at this thing, I've lived in this city for thirty years and I've been aware of this flooding problem for the last fifteen. That's when it first began and how it's developed. We didn't have this problem when there was no development back on the drainage area -- and we didn't have a problem. As that area has gradually developed up, the volume of water that's flowing increased and it has continued to increase and will increase more as it develops more and the only answer is to involve the entities involved, which is about five different entities. Sternfels: I agree. Sustaire; The corps is the vehicle in which we need to travel. to get all entities involved. If it takes ten years, we'll have to take ten, because there's no way we'll be able to completely get these people out of the flood plain alone. We can build a retention center in Euless if we had property there, but there's no property available. Sternfels: We don't have any, Park: Well, that might - -- Sustaire. The answer is a situation that no one wants to hear, but when you look at it from a practical standpoint and look at the whole of that property in the situation, that's all you can do. Park: Mayor Samuels, in line with what Mr. Sternfels has proposed, perhaps the first step that we could take to get there would be to call a joint meeting again of Hurst, Euless, and Bedford to discuss the possibility of doing a study in all three cities --- funding that study on the watershed. In other words, the volume of the watershed -- to even see if this retention thing would even help also. Mayor: If the Corps is willing to do that at no cost to the three cities, the most we might gain would be a couple of months, and T realize we may have a rain tonight and we may flood eight more homes, but I'm not sure that we're going to gain a great deal by doing that because all it takes is one of those three. saying, "We sympathize. with you, and were willing to request the Corps to do :i.t," but I. again don't think they are going to put up any money for our own private study. 1 think the most at this time we would get them to do is say, "We'll join you with the Corps," Maybe in the long run they will. join us if the Corps points out some problems that they've got in their communities 1957 -138 that they need to deal with, but 1 doubt seriously that. -- and I don't mind having a meeting with them, but I feel like that they're not going to approve any money for a study - -- Park: ---- feasibility of a retention thing before we just demand one, t guess Mayor: Oh, I see what you're. saying. You're -- you're -- I see .chat you're saying. Okay. Sustaire, Well, that's not received a lot of publicity, but there were homes in Bedford flooded during these rains also. Euless is not the only one Park: That's why they've enlarged their drainage- Sustaire: They've had water in about five homes upstream already. Mayor: 1..s that the sane creek? Was it down near us or --- (Transcr.iber's Notation: There are several people talking at the same time and the words cannot be understood.) Sustaire: - -- a park between Euless and where their residences start They've got water in their homes. It just does not receive the attention that we have received with ours. It has not been going on as long, but they are getting water in their homes today -- like this - -- Park: I thought that their flooding, though -- we were told somewhere that their flooding came from the street, though, because their drainage culverts were not large enough, and so this is - -- Sustaire: The culverts were stopped up because the creek was full and not letting the culverts drain, The storm sewers could not drain. Where you have the creeks full and the storm sewers cannot drain, the creek itself becomes a levy and then that water all floods into those homes. Eden: But do we not know that we have enough water, more than enough water, where we do need to widen that channel into -- if were going to give any relief? Sustaire: The studies that I've look at and the preliminary studies -- ninety foot wide is going to be necessary to give relief, and based on preliminary numbers that I've looked at myself, we will still have two homes that we will never be able to take out of the flood plain with a ninety foot channel. There will be two on the extreme southwest end that will have water. They'll have water. They'll be below level. They're actually below creek level and whatever we do back there, it's going to leave those homes with water, and its sad to say but that's what the studies indicate that I've looked at., and I think we need to be frank about this situation about the problems. Those two homes will not be able to come out of this flood plain. Sternfels: if I might comment, I'm not trying to blame anyone here. I'm not trying to alienate anyone as far as a sister city. What I'm saying is that if we in fact -- I guess I'm using a. little bit of logic here ---- if you cut down on the amount of water that's flowing through -- true -- you know, back it up -- now where does it go? The idea is that they've got. more rooms than we do and they're developed out more than we are. The.v've got it pretty well _- they've still got some more growth to go, obviously. They can make it come down faster. I'm saying that that may be something that we can do quicker than 1987-139 anything else. Sure, we'll go ahead and do everything else we're talking about, as quickly as we can - - - -- Sustaire: - -- the area that they have as park land probably would be suffl.cient for a retention center to prevent flooding for these rains that we have had lately, because if we have a prolonged rain, three, four, or five days, as we had in. 1957, that's not going to stop it - -- Sternfels: At lease this would give some - -- Sustaire: - -- 1 know, but I -- 1957, I saw water four foot in areas that haven't had water in it. since. It crossed over 183 in about five different places almost to the the top of an automobile, so it can rain here, and it will flood, and in a lot of areas that haven't been flooded yet. Sternfels: But didn't we have areas this last rain that flooded that we had never experienced before? Mayor: Obviously we did _-- Sustaire: We had homes in Morrisdale that had not had water. inside. Rossetti: And T would urge you to ask Bedford about. that. -- whether or not that they do have plans on widening that drainage culvert through ---- Sustaire: It's my understanding that they've doing a study at this time for that purpose. It's my understanding. Mayor: Are you speaking of the culvert that's in Pipeline? Rossetti: Yeah. The one that ends right above the - -- Sustaire: You realize that is in Euless? Mayor: That's. in Euless city limits. They can't open that culvert up any more without - -- Rossetti: Oh -- culvert -- okay. I'm talking about the bridge over Pipeline -- if T. understand that -- T guess when I say culvert I mean the d:i.tch. - -- Mayor: Its actually a big opening under a bridge. Sustaire: What is that -- two seven foot boxes under that, Jams, underneath -- What's under- Pipeline? One ten? Knight: It's a triple ten -by -ten, ten-by-nine structure. Rossetti.: T question would be whether or not they have any plans or what those plans are - -- Sustaire: They are --- based on unofficial information -- they are doing that study. I've not been actually told that by their engineer, but I have by one of their employees. Park: You're talking about widening the earthen channel? is that what you're talking about? Sustaire: They want to widen the box that crosses under Pipeline Road in the City of Euless. 1957 -140 Park: I thought that box belonged to the City of Euless. Sustaire: It does, but they want that widened and they're wanting to based on my information -- they want to - -- Park: - -- a study about widening something in. our city? Sustaire.: 'What's correct. Mayor: I think what they're doing is a study on their entire drainage channel down to us and they know that when they get to that point, then you're going to have to ask us to open up and allow the water to come through. Rossetti: That aright be an good area for compromise. Mayor: It might be.. Park: I don't - -- Mayor: - -- say a retaining basin for three years until we do something and then we'll open it up. That's a good point. Sustaire: It's no doubt that this is one of the priority projects that this Council has faced for the last ten years, I know, and it is a hairy situation. Its one that there's not an easy answer for. It :involves so many entities. We've only been able to get them interested in even talking to us until recent date. Somewhat like the Bluebonnet Bridge -- and I don't. think it was wrong for this group -- all -- most all of those who have been with us throughout the years realize that we were not even able to remove that bridge until that years owner sold some property so we could get permission to remove that bridge, and once that happened, Hurst gave us permissicxn. So it`s been> a long slow process and as long as that gentleman owned that property, it was private property through that channel and they were not even able to get on it to do engineering studies, so it has not been an easy thing. Mayor: You know, had Bluebonnet Bridge been removed seven years ago when we first started trying, we probably would have had three or four years of relief with minimal flooding, but as we've seen today, by the time we finally got it out of the channel, it may have helped, but it didn't help that much. It may have kept a few houses out, but obviously we had some additional with flooding in them. Yes,sir. Unknown man.: Isn't. it the. City of Euless' responsibility to maintain that drainage through that easement down behind Morrisdale? Sustaire: - -- Woodridge Street, that's private property when you go on Woodridge. That is owned by private - -- Unknown mar: --- silt, you can drive over that stuff. Sustaire: That belongs to those. homeowners that own those homes on each side.. it's their responsibility and they have a covenant in their homeowners' deed that tells them its their responsibility -- supposed to be.. I was not involved in drawing that, but that's the way they're all drawn. We don't even. have the right to go in. We have to go in each time and get permission from the homeowners to get in there to take out those. and do any in there at all. It is - -- 1987 - -141. Unknown man: - --- driveway is built up two and a half, maybe three feet behind my house and ---- Sustaire: Well, I don't doubt what you're saying at all. 1 don't doubt it at all Unknown man: - -- drainage -- the silt is above Sustaire: I don't doubt that at all. Rossetti: Would it he possible by way of some kind of short term solution to direct that culvert? McFarland: Mike, we got permission from the majority of the homeowners. There were sti.l.l some recalcitrant homeowners who liked willows back several years when we did that, and James, we may have done it even on more than one. occasion, I. don't know to what extent the clearing of that channel now would anywise help because of all the other problems downstream, upstream, would it? Knight: If siltation is occurring in it, removal of that siltation and certainly the removal of any willows or other would allow a more free flow of the water. On the lower frequency rainfall events it would be of some benefit. McFarland: But on the gully washer we had a month and a half ago --- Knight.: It might not., Pars: It would probably deposit again, but - -- Eden: Yes, but since the - Park - -- yeah, removing what is there now I know what you're talking about -- in where it's built up -- so he -- in other words there is a culvert that comes from a side arm -- --- McFarland: --- of course what he's talking about_ is the - -- Park: _ -- higher now Sustaire: last June. silt has deposited in the bed -- in the main bed of the creek is than the drainage from the arm Am I making myself clear? That has occurred since the last -- the last flood prior to this one Unknown. man: Pardon me, but we've been through two pretty good -- we've had ten inches of water in our house twice in less than a month -- -- Sustaire: We had crews for some thirty days in that channel sometime last year and whether they got the silt out or not I don't know, They spent about thirty days down there on it. Unknown man: - -- one of Safeway's carts out there, hut it was bodged in the middle - -- Sustaire: - -- spent most of their time getting that out? Unknown man: I think that's right. Now I'll have to admit, l live right next door to Mr. Webb and 1 don't have ten inches, but I. get several of water, 1987 -142 but they did work on the creek, that's right, by that -_ but -- full. now -- it would help Mayor: 1 think that's something we can do. I remember in the past when Bluebonnet Bridge was in, we had no way to get into that creek with a heavy piece of equ:i.pment.. No one really wanted a bulldozer to come across their yard. Now we. can obviously do it - -- (Transcriber's Notation: There is much talking and laughing at thi 1987-14.3 3 like to point out is that Mr. Hampton, is that the. -- Okay, he is concerned because he's a politician where his salary depends on him being reelected, where you gentlemen up here are on ego trips or ___ (Transc.riber's Notation: At this point there is laughter and talking. The words cannot be understood.) Bright: - -- but when they took the bridge out they took the dirt from around the edge of the creek and they piled it up on the existing roadway, Mayor: Was that sort of a barrier where the bridge came out? Bright: Yes. The old PWA or WPA road built and the roadway leading up to the bridge and its just like a dam Now my observation is that if the dirt and existing roadbed was spread out, moved or whatever, it would not alleviate all of our problems, but like the removal of the bridge, it would certainly help, and 1.. would think that if you could prevail upon the county commissioner to come in there. with a front end loader or whatever and haul some of that dirt out to goodness only knows where, it would indeed help. Mayor: Was that dirt still higher than probably some of your homes then? Bright.; Oh, yes. The roacl ._- if I stood beside the roadbed. it would be higher than my head and I'm six foot two, and then when I stand on top of the roadbed the dirt that. they've piled up top is at least as high as my head, so you've got a dam there that's at least twelve foot high. I would certainly think that -- you know, the county commissioner's got to --- Park: - -- Bright: salary and - --- Mayor: I'm sure we could probably work on getting that done. Again, I was not aware that that was the case and if I had, maybe I would not have thought of it as you did, but I think that's something that we can contact - -- Bright: - -- -- gravel and silt out of the creek bed? Mayor: The manager said he had a contractor. Sustaire. As soon as we reconfirm that the right to enter from all of the property owners are still valid, we can get in there. I'm sure we'll have no problem but I am not right sure at the time the permission was granted that those are still vapid today. Mayor: Probably some of the people Sustaire: Very likely. Probably some of them have changed ownership. We would have to have absolute permission from every homeowner to get in there. Once that's obtained --- McFarland: We acquired - -- (Transcriber's Notation.: Several people are talking at once and the words cannot be understood,) McFarland: - -- I think in temporary discussion --- lack of easements -- whichever way it is -- south of Woodvine -- there are no easements in 1987-144 existence, Let's go back and look at that at the time because we had some homeowners that we had to really work with to even get a thirty day temporary permit to come in and cut willows and so on Let us re -look at that and see if we have any continuing authority to get in there and clear. Unknown man: Ladies and gentleman Sustaire: If you have a homeowners who refuses, about the only way to get it is to purchase his property, McFarland; No -- in all fairness, let us look and let us find out which properties we have and which we don't have and let me afford you, through Mr. Rossetti, an opportunity to make contact with those of your neighbors that may need some permission to come in there with and -- may find it a bit. easier - --° Mayor: - -- we'll. take care of and may need to get your help for those one or two hard ones, if they are -- I know there were before. Unknown man: How was the sewer company able to come in and put a sewer line down in the bottom of that ditch? How were they able to do it if you can't do it? McFarland: Trinity River Authority may have an easement. Park: We have to sign -- don't you remember -- there on the west east side of the creek? We had to sign papers releasing ---- Mayor: You're on the west side, aren't you sir? Park: -- come through there. Mayor: The person that's right behind you -- property comes all the way across up to your fence line, so TRA would have contacted whoever that person is and gotten their permission. That's the same way now. We won't be contacting those of you who might live on the west side. It'll he - -- Unknown woman; - --- they're a lot higher than we are on the left side. The east side people are - -- (Transcriber's Notation: The tape was turned over at this point and some words were not recorded. Tape 2b begins here.) Mayor: Yes, ma'am. Unknown woman: - -- come through there with a backhoe to there on top of that culvert -- and drug the dirt up there in front of that culvert or drain and piled it right there on the side. He didn't remove it. He just moved it over. It's still. there and he sat there and laughed and said that's what they told him to do but that it was a joke. They never removed any of the dirt.. They just made a different pile and left it there. Mayor: Do you know if that was a city employee? Sustaire: Have no idea. I didn't know that it happened, Mayor: Was it a city truck? 1987 --145 Woman: Uh, 1 don't even know if that -- yeah, it was a city -- going back and forth out there -- Sustaire: Mayor: Well, we have two backhoe operators. I think we can find out who that was. Sustaire: That's kind of - -- We have only two in the city, so it won't. be hard to identify him. Rossetti: I have a question. In a situation like this where there -- it appears as though it will he necessary to spend a large expenditure of money in order to solve a problem such as this and the money is not. available W ° what steps could or would --- what steps does the city typically do to raise some money in order to take those steps? Mayor: The only way the city could raise those funds in that magnitude in a period of time that would be reasonable would be a bond issue, and I have no doubt that probably a bond issue would be passed. But the second question would be is the selling of and then the repayment of those bonds and there's no way we just came out of a budget work session -- there's no way the c:i.ty can pay those bonds back without a sizeable tax increase and I think everyone needs to know that. -- these folks might be willing to pay five to six cents on their tax rate because it might be worth it to them but I'm not sure the other people in the other parts of the community and that -- you know that's --- Unknown woman: We've been paying taxes for twenty plus years to get something done, How much credit do we get for that? Unknown man: Yeah, give us credit. for North Main -- a big fancy bridge out there and widened the street. We must have paid something, on that. Mayor: Most of the North Main bridge -- a big portion of it was paid for by the county but the city did have some funds in that, but the city': participation in that bridge was not but about one-tenth or less of even what it cost on the minimum channel, much less the channel to do the ultimate sixty to ninety - -- Unknown man: --- been paying for bonds for over twenty years and it's s t ime Euless paid something back into Morrisdale.. (Transcriber's Notation: At this point there is applause and many people are talking at one. Words cannot be understood.) Unknown woman: Pipeline Road? Sustaire: Pipeline Road was built exclusively for *for. r i sdale. Woman: I beg your pardon? Sustaire: Pipeline Road. All the way out. (Transcr.iber's Notation: Many people are talking and the words cannot be. understood.) Sustaire: - -- built exclusively for Morrisdale.. I'm just telling you that's what happened. (Transcriber's Notation: Many people are talking at once 1987 -146 and the words cannot be understood.) Mayor: Excuse me just a moment. 1'd like to give each of you a chance to talk but this .lady -- yes, ma'am. Unknown woman: My question was who is responsible for the upkeep on Pipeline Road? (Transc.riber's Notation: This woman talked for quite some time. About every tenth word she spoke could be understood. Since this sparse wording would make no sense, it was omitted. from the testimony.) Mayor: Yes, ma'am. it's all in our city limits. Unknown woman: It seems to me the city of Euless would be more than happy to do something now in order to cover their own backside before the traffic problems and the problems of insurance claims . We live west of Morrisdale Estates. We work. east of Morrisdale Estates. We travel up and down Pipeline Road and we've been told innumerable times by the city of Euless that Pipeline Road is a major thoroughfare. Mayor: Yes, it is. Unknown woman: We don't like having to sit on our jobs an hour and a half or two hours beyond our work times, especially those of us who have small children that can get home from school or from the baby-sitters because they're at home alone while we're waiting to transverse Pipeline Road in these bad weather conditions and in this particular area that we are talking about in the flood in May my son who works at. the Trinity Valley industria.l...d.i.strict attempted to come home down Pipeline Road -- he was delayed two-and a half hours. He could not core down Pipeline Road. nor could he come down. Highway 10. Mayor: Let me ask you this. Are you saying water during this last May flood -- that water was over Pipeline at the Morrisdale area? (Transcriber'r Notation: At this point there are many people talking and the words cannot be understood.) Mayor: Ma'am, I did not hear anyone say -- I did not hear anyone say tonight that water has been over Pipeline Road. I did hear the people. say that they have had water in their homes, that they had not -- but. I did not hear anyone say - -- Unknown woman_: tonight that they had to go out there and help the cars move and transverse Pipeline Road and push cars back on Pipeline Road because Pipeline Road. was flooded in May? Mayor: That really sounds as if the upstream water situation is worse than we thought because - -- Unknown wo this is the influx this flood man: (Tr.anscri.ber's Notation: Many people are talking at the same time. The words cannot be understood.) Highway 10 can't go anywhere else -- okay -- Pipeline Road. - -. again we're creating another problem because of traffic coming off of 183 because south of Pipeline around plain for twent.y-- eight years which is pretty close to what Mr. 1.987 -147 Snstaire has been out here. and I agree with him, these problems are not getting better, they're getting worse. Mayor: Oh, they are - -- Unknown woman: - -- the city of Hurst and we've also lived in the city of Bedford. We've also lived. in the city of Euless. With this problem -- with this particular creek there's been a problem out here - -- (Transcriber.'s Notation: This is the same woman continuing her testimony. You still can understand only sparse wording. The tape location is at 2b.5 ) Mayor: Yes, sir. Fred Bowers: Mayor, I'm Fred Bowers, 1409 Pebble Creek and I've lived there for approximately twenty -five years and our first flood was fifteen years ago in 1965, we had a good one, and I've got documented with good pictures of , but actually you know we've got a problem. We've got rain around here and that rain has got one purpose and that's to go to the Trinity River and :it's going to cause damage going there if the water gets high enough. Okay, that situation is very similar to a funnel. You got a big end. You got a small end. The small end is pointed towards the Trinity River. Well it doesn't matter what we do up here in the north. That water's not going to go any -- its what enables this top end to go through the size of this small end of the funnel and that's the problem were having now. You see --- at the meeting where we had this engineer from the highway department. We had one from the railroad department. I've. heard of buck passing, but that was pretty good. They're good. The situation now is becoming an emergency type of deal --- of life threatening because water is going up into. the houses. -.- going into the electrical situation -. like I had a neighbor whose young son was home alone when the flood started, He really didn't know what to do, especially when he saw items from his garage and so forth go past his window. 'c'hat's the first notice that he had that his house was being flooded. Young kid. Okay. The water had gone up past their electrical sockets. Suppose he had grabbed something. Okay. It's a life saving. Now there's such things as emergencies. Take that bridge down there. We're worried about that railroad bridge. I've seen railroad bridges have an accident on that bridge and that bridge is replaced the next day. The same way with the highway department. Of course it took them a year to replace that bridge where some woman. hit. -- some man hit that -- but anyhow, I think they should be worked out -- because this is becoming really serious. The thing is to not start. at Bedford. Bedford can't do anything. They're just trying to do their best like we were. The thing to do is start from the Trinity River and work this way. If the openings were big enough up under that bridge -- under the culverts under Highway 10 -- we would not have flooded during the twenty -five years that I've lived here in Morrisdale. And T believe that the situation is here for another twenty -five years. They keep saying hundred year flood, but a hundred year flood mainly refers to the Trinity River. We have never had that Trinity River backed up in our house, but we have had the water from the north going toward the Trinity River trapped because the funnel is too small. Let's open up those things. Don't open up to the north. Anytime we open up something to the. north, people to the south are going to be in worse shape -- at any house. I think you should treat this thing as an emergency =, even if it has the highway department and the railroad department doing like they do when they have the train wreck or a . The money's available. Thank you. Mayor: I think Mr. Sternfels' point a while ago was that maybe that would be a way to help hold some water until we could deal with the downstream. T think 1987 -148 we -- I'm not a water engineer but I think I know that if we had a large enough opening south of Morrisdale and it was downhill enough, we wouldn't worry about what Bedford did. It would move on out. But obviously that's hard to come by and slow to come by, so I thick we know there's several problems to be dealt with and I. think you were trying to deal with the one. that maybe we could deal with the fastest. We agree with that. I'm not sure that -- you know, commenting any more on -- I think all the requests are very reasonable. As 1 said, 1 hope -- I hope you folks realize that though I. don't happen to live on the west side of Morrisdale and have water in my home,, that 1 don't feel just as strongly as you do. And I know that if this isn't dealt with for the next five years, it's going to cost more than it did five years ago.. There's no doubt about that, but when you try to get a bond issue passed and you tell the people up front it's going to add this much to your tax rate, they're just pretty reluctant, and I think particularly this year with the -- with what's happening at the state level and perhaps at the school level because of some of the other situations, that it's just a particularly difficult year. That's exactly why in our budget. work session we left the tax rate the same and made some hard decisions and realized that we --- if we would have to let some employees go and leave some other programs undone -- and a million dollars is a great amount of money to this city -- to deal with -- and as T said I don't want to tell you any different because it is. Any of you want to make comments or have any other thoughts, we'd be glad to listen to them. Unknown man: Are you going to clean it out? Mayor: Yes, sir. We're going to clean it up. Sustaire: I don't know what but I will clean it out. Mayor: We. are going to clean it out. We can do that. Park: Mayor Samuels, not only clean it out but two other --- Sustaire: --- and :haul away what's there.. Park: - -- two other things that 1 would like to see us do immediately and that is to expedite the three cities' petition still, working towards the long range thing with the Corps of Engineers, and to approach, threat or whatever -- in other words °° the three cities with the holding area up in Bedford, T would like to see those two things - --- Mayor: Let me make a suggestion so that Bedford doesn't feel. they're being singled out. I think we might make it. a ° -- Park: 1 said Hurst - -- Mayor: --- a holding situation in Bedford and at the same time and in the same meeting discuss the possibility of Hurst making sure that from our south city limits down to Highway 10 is cleared out so that water can get down there. so Bedford doesn't feel like they're being singled out. Like the gentleman said, if you get the opening at the bottom of the funnel a little bit bigger then you're going to move the water on out, so 1 think it needs to he a joint - -- Unknown woman: Gentlemen, at this particular time. The property I live on is owned by a Euless resident and I'll appoint myself a committee of one to go to the Hurst City Council and talk just as loud and just as fast as I've talked here. tonight. Unknown woman: Well, we have we've done that already. 1987-149 Unknown woman: Well, let's do it again. Unknown woman: That's how we got the Bluebonnet Bridge removed. Unknown woman; Well, let's do it again, if you - -- Mayor: if you live in Hurst -- there's no doubt that a city body is going to listen more to its own citizens if you live there. There's no doubt. I understand that because they've all got only so much money to spend and they're going to spend it where they feel ..like it does their citizens the most good and not for what their neighbor needs, and we're the same. way. Unknown woman: --- sent to the city of Euless so I'm not going up there with my tail wagging to the city of Hurst -.- so I'm not going up there with my tail wagging. I'll guarantee you I will speak to the city of Hurst at their next council meeting, but 1 would like to have some of these other residents of Morrisdal.e Estates to come with me to that meeting and give us ammunition. We will help you get it done. I don't think there's a person here that will back down. Mayor: The person who knows most of the technical aspect within our city is either Mr. Knight, our city engineer, or perhaps Mr. Tom Hart who is -- who chaired that meeting --- that would be the -_- Unknown woman: --- we've got to know what we expect Hurst to do before we start talking to them. I don't care if I get it from Mr. Knight or Mr. Hart or who I get it from. Mayor: When we finish or before you leave give your names, address and phone number to one of these gentlemen, then. You might not want to stay for the entire meeting, We're only a third of the way through. There was a gentleman here -- yes, sir. Edward Denari: My name is Edward Denari. I. live at 1209 Pebble Creek. I have lived there so long T call it Pebble Creek, a sophisticated Sulphur Branch. I have a few comments for the Coun.c,i.l and you, Mayor. I'd like to start this by opening remarks by saying I think we live in a very fine city. I think much has been done in this city to exhibit excellent. progress. I think it's citizen oriented.. Its a wonderful place to live. I think the city councils through the years have been a force here and have been behind all the citizens and in total you have done an excellent job. But what were confronted with here is a very provincial problem in the eyes of many of you and other people in the city who don't even know about the flooding of Pebble Creek, but the point is were in the and we're out in shouting. T want to harken to the words of Mr. Bowers. This is a catastrophe and it's a catastrophe to some people and its a fighting catastrophe to others. Now I have watched that creek through the years and it started with a very benign creek. 1'. built my house there because that's what 1 wanted. l wanted the creek as a buffer for my children to enjoy it and indeed it was a benign companion to our entire family and those about us. Now its turned. into a ravaging monster and 1 say that clearly in the light of standing on. the edge of that bank_ and seeing those waters r :i.se so high -- very treacherous -- so there's four things about that creek. it's getting wider. Its getting deeper. Its getting fuller. And it's getting faster. And 1 can project from my own background that I think the day is going to come if you don't take some action, that we'll all be flooded out in that area. There isn't a doubt in my mind that 1 think its a threat. Now I say that in the complete light that economically it doesn't do me any good or anybody else in this room, to have words go out to say that Morrisdale has flooding threats. I don't like that, so I look at it from the standpoint that 1987 -150 the city is your brother's keeper, whether you want to admit to it or not, it's a total. environment we live in here. You are the guardians of all of us. Now when you talk about the bond issue and saying its a difficult job, then I say it may be a difficult job but its a priority you should place on your books for the simple reason that I as a citizen of this city should be responsible to the entire city. Now unless the city council adopts the theory of insurance that the bosses of a few is borne by the many, then you don't have any support. So I'm a little bit disappointed in not getting from you folks a :Feeling that (a) this is a con nitment. that the city must make to these people; (b) that bond issue certainly has viability to it. And the last thing that I want to say is that all through this evening I have felt that perhaps you have not studied th:i.s problem in a timely fashion. Why do I say that? And I'm not being accusing.; you have a very difficult job. But I've sat here tonight and heard very preliminary things discussed. Not like this is a problem that was identified ten years ago, three years ago. You are talking about very primitive solutions that should have been analyzed, options looked at., selected and a plan established. Now that's what's worrying me. Unless you make a commitment to the people in this room and to what this gentleman has to say -- that you are going to address this problem and make a solid commitment -- and that's what. I want out of the city council -- to make this a top priority, Thank you, Mayor: That's that's the first time I've every clapped for anyone speaking, but it was very well put. .l. think -- and I don't want to speak for the entire council, but T. think perhaps part of our reluctance may be not so much that we don't know what the problem is, not so much that we're not committed to solving it, but we don't know how to solve it in the light of cooperative efforts with other entities and the dollars to solve the problem. And I think that's - -- Denari: You have to be determined, Mayor. This count ..i has to-he-determined to make that as an objective. We go through life with the idea that how we make progress is establishing objectives. I think one of the objectives of the city council ought to be to establish a high priority to solve this problem within the limits that you can work with. That's all I'm saying. That's what. I think I wanted to hear tonight. If you tell me that and you're going to apply the resources of this organization you have plus all other aspects of your entity, then I'll go out of here feeling much better, and I'm sure everybody else in the room will be. That's the pledge I think we're looking for. Mayor: I understand that. It's not new to us either. Bright: We can't even come before you and say, "Well thank you. You tried this and it didn't work." Now you're not in a position to say, "Well you came in here and you demanded that we do this and we do that, and we did it and it didn't work, so what are you complaining about ?" We can't even accuse you of that. All we can accuse you of is sitting there and doing nothing except giving lip service. As I said, I've been up here since the latter part of the '60's and that's all we've ever gotten is i:i.p service. Mayor: Well., we did have some influence on Bluebonnet. and I know you people did, too, but -- removal of the bridge -- yeah, I think we pursued that and I think you all. -- at least many of you did help with that too, but as I said, we have done that. We have tried to clean it out from time to time. No, we've not committed a million dollars to line the channel and we're not convinced that if we had the money today that that's the. answer to it because we think it would only be temporary, and we think people would be back within the next -- maybe instead of a two year rain -- would be back within the six year. rain. So, as T said, based on the engineering that we. have - -- 1987-151 (Transcr:i.ber's Notation: Several people are talking at the same time. The words cannot be understood.) Unknown woman.: Look at it now. Last year we had fifty thousand dollars in damage with no insurance. This year by the insurance company -- the insurance company --- their price is eighty -five thousand dollars. Mayor: Ma'am, let me ask you something. You sound by the tone of your voice as if you think the problem is not serious to us. Just because we haven't said we're not going to go spend a million and a. half dollars which the city doesn't have to - -° Unknown woman: - -- money. We've been over there twenty -five years and we voted bond issues in. We've paid the taxes and they went to central Euless because that's what people were interested in and Morrisdaie sat there with another study. Its happened over and over and over and you're saying tonight, "Let's make another study and pass another bond issue and maybe we'll do something about Morrisdale." That's what I'm hearing. Mayor: I think that's what we're saying. Yes, ma'am. Unknown woman: Well, 1 don't like it. Mayor: Okay. Unknown woman: What about Bedford and Hurst annexing us and possibly they taking our problem? I'm sure they'd be delighted, don't you? Unknown woman: They would refuse to have the area. Mayor: Today they probably would love to have you because ybu'` re certainly the premier residential area in Euless, there's no doubt about that, and we wouldn't give you up. I would say to you -- 1 don't know about -- 1_ don't know about Hurst but I don't think they would have any more money available because. they've got some growing pains that we don't have, At least we've got some streets in place, but we've got some problems, there's no doubt. Fifteen years from now when they're sitting up here there will be some problems. 1 hope this is not one of them, but there will be some other problems within the community. And Bedford has got. a long way to go with their streets and all before they catch us, so I doubt seriously that they would have the funds to do that either. Rossetti: I think I agree and. understand that. the first thing you've got to do is to get the money and the only way to do that is through a bond election. l guess --- and I think I'm hearing you say that you are willing to °° and I don't know what is standing up here, but I think you're saying that the city will -- even though it may be a long shot, that the city will do what. it can do to the extent possible in order to get a bond election. heard regarding this matter and get it passed. Is that accurate? Mayor: Let me say this. I don't think we. would have any problem passing a bond election. It's just like some people don't have any problem going to the bank and getting a loan to do something with, but then payment time comes, So passing the bonds is probably the easiest. -- you people here tonight -- the way most people -- the way most of our bond elections go -- could probably easily influence the passage of a bond election, but then that only says that you have permission to go sell the bonds, and immediately upon the sale, you start repaying and when you sell a million dollars worth of bonds -- what does that add to the tax rate? We just went through a budget work session. 19'37-152 Sustaire: Roughly five cents, Mayor: Okay. The tax rate now is forty-three, so it would be forty -eight to finance those bonds. And as 1 said, the folks here :night. be more than willing to do it, but we have flooding in other areas of town and we have other problems and other people ---- when we pass a bond issue., for them to support it they're going to want that street patched or the water out of their homes and so then it becomes not a million dollar issue that we might sell to solve this channel problem, it becomes a four or five million dollar problem to do work in other parts of the town and then you're not talking about a nickel on the tax rate., you're talking about twenty -five cents and there's not many people who are going to vote for a twenty -five cent tax increase when the tax rate is forty-three cents today. You can see what percentage that is and as 1 said 1 know I sound negative and 1 know 1. sound pessimistic, but I'm not a politician. I'm going to tell you like it is and if -- you know -W if you don't like it, we'll try to get together and I'll try to help you change it, but I'm not going to tell you that I'm all for this and have you go out of this room and feel like we're all fixing to do something because 1 -- there are some things that we can do and we will do but as 1' said. I'm not going to tell you tonight --- and will let any of the rest of the Council that doesn't agree with me speak if they feel differently than I do --- because as I said there are a lot of other things that we have to deal with sitting at this table. Yes, sir.. Bright: Let me make one more comment. While let's make a study on what it would cost to what_e_ver. it is that's in the flood plain into a Unknown woman: To hold the water from Bedford. you're doing all these studies turn the twenty-two houses or beautiful city park. Bright: You could do it for a hell of a lot cheaper than a million dollar . Mayor: I'm not. in public but I'm when we've talked times as you folks I'm not sure that what. I'm fixing to say has ever been said going to say it anyway. You'd be surprised how any times about this -- and we've talked about it probably as many have -- that we've talked about buying some homes. Unknown woman: You can have ours. Mayor: Now, we've not asked the attorney, and this may be -- he hasn't been in a lot of of our work sessions and all -- and I don't know whether we can do that legally or not, but we've talked about that and 1 think that's -- I think that's a possibility. The thing that worries me about that is, if we knew today that we could buy homes and solve the problem, we could probably do it and save money for the citizens, but 1 heard tonight that there are three or four more homes on upstream and certainly you can't buy all of the homes from the Bedford city limits to the Hurst city, limits. (Transcribers' Notation: Mr. Bright is talking at this point, referring to "downstream" but his words cannot be understood due to so many people talking at once.) Mayor: Yes, sir. Bill foreman: My name is Bill Foreman. .1 live at 1208 Shady Creek and I've kind of spoken out of turn so I'll speak in turn if .I can. Twelve years ago we moved into the area by . We moved in with good faith in the area and the city in good faith and those who lived around us, not knowing that twelve years later we would regret doing that. We moved in with the home value, 1987-.15.3 which has increased over the. years, and now we find that we're in a home that we can't sell because no one wants it and we're scared to death to live in because of the water. Now of all the things that you see and all the things that you hear, when that rain starts falling on your roof and you get scared and your kids get scared and your dogs go around in circles because they don't like it and Now many of us here think that every time it starts raining and we don't like it and we can't get out and we can't stay and we come to you for some sort of consolation and some sort of solution and we'd like some sort of a program and an answer and that's all we ask. Mayor: I understand. Unknown woman: Besides that we pay fifty cents to help beautify Euless on our water bill. Mayor: I think we need to __ that's a good point -- S think we treed to spend some of that down in Morr.i.sda.le. Unknown man: I've got a question just out of curiosity. He was talking --- Mr. Sustaire there -- about the -- Bedford would say, well no we don't want to do this because we don't want to spend the money and Hurst won't do this because they don't want to spend the money --- but is there something that Hurst or Bedford is coming to Euless to say, "Well please give us this." Can we says "Well we will if," -- you know? Mayor Well, I think we were thinking a moment ago when we were talking about the fact that we have. heard they're going to came and ask us to open up the box culverts. Naturally we -- our problem is we're not going to do it until we get a solution to the problem, but that might be something that we can talk to them about -- a retaining pond until such time we can solve._the.. problem. downstream and then we would open up the culvert. I don't. know. ...... at's the only thing that occurs to me at this point in time. They came to us several years ago and asked us to cooperate with them an some signalization. We did that and I think we both came out for both sets of residents without spending as much money as either one would have, but that's the only thing I can think of recently we've been involved in. Unknown man: Because it affects their residents too because of Pipeline getting flooded. Mayor: It especially does if the water that we've heard they're getting came from rising water then that is a problem., but I don't. know. I haven't talked with them about it, as such, Unknown man: Seems like when you would go ask again in the next few weeks or whatever. Mayor: Any comments? Sustaire: I would respond to that by saying that the cities want to cooperate until you ask them to spend a dollar, then suddenly they become very uncooperative and understandably so. If they're going to expend dollars that are in Euless, their taxpayers wil.l not support it Neither w:i.l.:l. Euless' citizens support other projects that may be. in Bedford or Hurst. In this particular situation when you're seeking money, you're going to have to ask bath Bedford and Hurst to spend money to correct this situation. You've. got to channelize through the city of Hurst. You've got to cha.nnelize through the city of Fort Worth, and you're going to have to go into part of Bedford to correct the problem completely, so we're asking not to expend money in Euless, 1987-154 but to expend money in their own city to correct the problem that you are having„ and its not a particular problem to either of the two cities because it goes through parts in both of those cities, so it's difficult and it will be difficult for us to solve, but it's not something that we're not going to attack and not going to attempt to get them to do what we can do, We are at least in a dialogue with them relative to this problem. They're receptive and Mayor: Well, x think it all boils down to °- any community that. is growing fast. and usually has to provide services prior to getting taxes --° I realize some of you feel like you've been paying taxes and haven't had the services -- but in general, cities have to provide the services many times before they get taxes and any city has the same problem. They're going to spend their ;Homey, which is never adequate to do all they've got to do, wherever their need is the greatest without any regard to the neighbors. As I said that's not very hard -- we would feel the same way, if Morrisdale wasn't there and Bedford wanted the City of Euless to open up those culverts to cut down the flooding upstream, we would have to say up front that we don't have the money to open Chose culverts up. If you want. to do it. -° you know -- we'll help you with it so to speak, and we'll allow you to do it in our city, but we don't have any money to do that with. And they've got the same problem. Hurst, for example, on downstream, there are not even any residents at all anywhere even in that area. Yes, sir. Unknown. man: One last -- one more point -° because I couldn't: see the city attorney. I thought he had left. Mayor: He just. got quiet. Unknown man: He may want to consider. To the south of : :.us...i:s.,. }Iurst._....Rurst has just now okayed a new development being built in that' area. " _ There's going to be °- I saw the plans of the houses and there's sixteen of those houses that's going to he in the flood plain that they are going to allow houses to be built. How -- if the city allows _- you know this federal insurance program -- that they would prevent such things --- but the -- they're going to allow those sixteen houses to be built and that's directly south of that. creek, In fact they're going to curb Bluebonnet and that ought to take it directly down to Highway 10. If they do that, that's going to increase the flooding in forrisdal.e because_ -- i.t'1.l decrease our runoff. Now even at the present time there is three sewer lines down there now and the other day -- about a month ago -- right after this meeting that we had the other. day -- I went down there and they had the -- bulldozers had made a road completely across Sulphur Branch where no water could run down, In talking with the foreman and also the tractor driver, he said that every morning they cover up Pebble Creek and then that night they open it up. So I thought, well that is a lot of work, so that night T went down -- well that afternoon -- as soon as they quit work and moved the tractor and none of their employees was there -- with arthritis I was able to jump across Sulphur Branch. That's how much of an opening was there and if we had had a flood that night. °- we'd had another good rain that night we would have had another good flood. But they continue to do that everyday. Mayor: That building in the flood plain is really very strange. I think maybe we ought to share with them your experience. We certainly don't issue any building permits in the flood plain in Euless and I'm not sure they can do that legally, but it may be they're going to have the actual pad above the flood plain or they may he going to put a levy. I. don't know. I shouldn't speculate what they're. - °- 1987-155 Unknown woman: --- Arwine Cemetery runs south of Highway 10. Now is that or is that not in the flood plain? Mayor: Some portion of it is I've seen the flood map and it goes quite a ways on --- in fact when you get into Hurst the hundred year flood area is wider than it is up in the Morri.sdale area. Unknown woman: Right. Which is exactly what I said earlier. Let's go talk to the city of Hurst. Let's take the map to the city of Hurst and if they don't know that they're. }wilding in the flood plain, maybe somebody because if Euless is darn well the one that's and they're definitely going if they do close those roads off at night. Mayor: See, they told us initially when we first heard of that development that it would actually improve our situation because they were going to clean out that area and make a more defined channel through there -- deeper -- and allow more run off, so that's totally different from what. you've ----- Unknown. woman: --- an aerial map? Unknown man: That was the original intent, but 1 talked to Gary Brown who is the developer of that and he told me that what they're going to do is build up these lots that are in the flood plain now and make those over the top of it, so that is directly in line with Pebble Creek itself, which if you raised the land. down side, what's going to happen? Mayor: You have a dam, so to speak. Well, 1 appreciate that information. I was not aware of it. Unknown man: In that same regard there rather than the developer taking care of those twenty -nine acres down there, he says, "Weft I'll get rid of this problem, that's going to be g:i.ven to the city for a city park, so that is the city park property of Hurst." Mayor: Well that was another thing -- I knew that Hurst had acquired some land in there and from what they told me last time T visited with Hurst about it -- (Transcriber's Notation: tape 3a.) This is the end of tape 2b; go to Unknown man: You know at the creek might. down -- dead end -- and the extension to that on the left -hand side that is a city park, on the right -hand side of Pebble Creek or will be Pebble Creek is this housing development. Mayor: Okay. Yes, sir. Unknown man: Are you saying the road to that creek every night they literally dam it up? Unknown man: Yeah, dam it up, yeah. Unknown man: Something's got to be done about that. Unknown man: They do that in the morning and then they -- supposedly open it up at night. They leave, Mayor: Were going to -- that's something we will contact Hurst about. think we can probably get that resolved, as such. Other comments? 1987 -156 Park: I think we can - -- (Transcriber's Notation: Mrs, Park's words cannot be understood due. to the talking of a woman in the audience.) Park: Mayor., couldn't they do a low water crossing there across the creek just as easy --- more easy? Mayor: I think that's what they're doing, They're filling in making a low water crossing in the daytime and supposedly cleaning it out at night in case it rains at night, but they evidently are not cleaning it out. That's what I take it that they're doing. They're putting enough dirt in there so they can go across with their bulldozers and their trucks and all. Yes, ma'am. Unknown woman: You know those apartments on Pecan? That property was lower than our property, They brought in truckloads of fresh soil and built it up higher than our property and then they built two story apartments and we get all the runoff, all of us, and we have been flooded time and again. Had happen Mayor.: Did you not have any flooding where you are until those apartments were built? Woman: Oh, yes. We had some but nothing like we have now -- and we've had the fire department come over to assist us during the flooding. It was that bad. Unknown woman: Yeah, she's talking about the Hurstonian Apartments, Pecan Manor Apartments. They're actually in Hurst, This is exactly what Hurst is doing again. They came in there and built up in the area of the school, built these apartment complexes higher than the property_:. i.n.....EuIe.ss Water is draining down over their homes and right into Pebble Creek. Mayor: Well, there's no doubt that a number of our existing homes are in the flood plain and those today couldn't have gotten building permits, and 1 realize that doesn't. help you a lot but I know that what's happening is evidently Hurst is requiring them to bring their property out of the flood plain before. they allow them to build on that today. I mean, they're not trying to hurt us, but - -- Unknown woman: They're building on south of Arwine Road down. to Highway 10 -- they're building on that property which will increase the water flow into Pebble Creek, south of the district that we are talking about that is now flooding, So it's going to increase the problem as opposed to decreasing the problem. The more they build in there., the more water will go into this creek the less opening we have at the mouth of that funnel and the more water we're going to have built up in Morrisdale Estates. There's an overall - -- Mayor: I understand. Anyone else? Yes, sir. Unknown man: - -- built the shopping center with the Buckboard Restaurant is a giant problem -- a thirty-six inch. pipe runs down across Arwine, comes right past my lot and into the same creek you've got trouble in. 1 got water the first t:i.me in twenty-five years. Mayor: Just this past time? Unknown man: That's right. Hurst did it all. They say they're clean. They didn't destroy the natural flow of water. 19S7 -157 Mayor: They just moved it over to somewhere else? I understand. Other comments? I know we have some other folks here with another problem, but we put you all on first. We do need to be moving along and give them an opportunity to speak. I don't know how to sum this up -- I think your requests were reasonable. I won't say you've got our attention because I think you've had our attention, but I will say that we will go back and do some immediate things and again, you probably -- perhaps you put it back on the front burner if it wasn't_ on there to start with. Rossetti: What I would try to do, Mayor Sanders -- Mayor Samuels, is I'll try to outline in a letter the short term items -- what. I will try to do for the benefit of my clients as well as the city council is outline both the things that the city is in a position to do and also the things that the city is apparently -- is not in a position to do at this time and I probably am going to meet with my clients later on this week and also try to give you some kind of response as to their position as to what the city is doing and what else they feel is needing to be done. Mayor: And I -- if we need to have any input before that meeting or after you meet with them and then have another with them -- as I said, we have got the elected people, the city manager, the city attorney, and -- Tom, I'm glad. you stayed, bless your heart. Rossetti: Thank you for your time Mayor: Folks, were going to take about a two minute recess and then we'll be back. (Transcriber's Notation: This iteae.:, ends:..:at.::. Tape .:3a.7..) 1 987 -1 '38 AGENDA MEETING ON SULFUR BRANCH CITY OF EULESS CITY COUNCIL CHAMBER JULY 9, 1987 I, INTRODUCTION II, PURPOSE OF THE MEETING III. SULFUR BRANCH WITH REGARD TO THE CITY OF EULESS IV, SULFUR BRANCH WITH REGARD TO OTHER ENTITIES A. CITY OF BEDFORD B. CITY OF HURST C. CITY OF FORT WORTH D. STATE DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAYS & PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION E. TRINITY RIVER AUTHORITY F. RAILROAD G. CORPS OF ENGINEERS V. RECOMMENDATIONS OR COURSE OF ACTION VI. ADJOURN (era' NAME • Lc Gree DEPARTMENT OF Planning & Engineering ROST.ER1. Meeting on Sulphur Branch July 9, 1987 2 :00 p.m. REPRESENTING sr fP (1-71y ,1-4‘41 'i.0. t »• 177 nF JLe55 \AV Y74 gam)/04-1'4.: a1 o FZ* arg\ tcA-1- f \-‘1,f 1987 -159 PHONE NO. 2‘"?-4494 LI c6 7-- cel 3 25- -7Fzt 227/-4 0� o 9/V-- 3' Y'7` ile5` 4, 33/ aCe, 3 -2257' 2-S3 S3 E3 / 2.83.3 p53 8 I f3-20- cm-3 ac,-7-1S03 1987-160 MEETING SULPHUR BRANCH FLOODING JULY 9, 1987 2 :00 P.M. Tom Hart, Assistant City Manager for the City of Euless, called the meeting to order at 2.15 p.m. in the Euless City Council Chambers. Mr. Hart introduced himself and made the statement that a number of homes in the Morrisdale Estates area have flooded during heavy rains in the past several years. he noted that some of the homeowners were in attendance. Those officials in attendance introduced themselves as follows Ron Haynes - City of Hurst Tor Vogt - Corp of Engineers Jane Sanford - Representing Tarrant. County Commissioner Bob Harptom Ed Powell - City of Bedford Doug Rivers - City of Bedford Joan B. McNamee - Trinity River Authority Patricia Cleveland - Trinity River Authority James Knight - City of Euless Jim McKanna - City of Euless Jim Foster - City of Hurst Ray Ozebek - City of Euless Council.member Bob Green - City of Fort Worth David Hughes, Jr. - Elliott & Hughes, Inc. Larry Rungs - MK &T Railroad Larry Lumm - MK &T Railroad Billy Hardie - SDHPT Jack Eaton - SDHPT To!n Hart - Assistant City Manager Glenn Walker - City of Euless Mayor Pro -Tem Carolyn Park - City of Euless Councilmember Citizens in attendance were as .follows: Joe & Helene Hornisher - Morrisdale Fred W. Bowers - Morrisdale Ernest. Laukhef - Morrisdale James Knight gave an overview of the problem area in Euless which is affected by areas upstream and downstream from Morrisdale Estates. He explained the drain- age system provided in the mid- 1960's for the Morrisdale Estates Subdivision is inadequate under current development conditions of the Sulphur Branch drainage area, The nature of the problem is multi-jurisdictional and the purpose of the meeting was to try to work together to find a solution and a means of funding to correct the problem. 1987-161 Sulphur Branch Flooding Meeting July 9, 1987 Page Two • Billy Hardie stated that the Highway Department has no immediate plans for improvements to the drainage structure on S.H. 10 over Sulphur Branch Mr. Hardie stated that any improvements to the roadway would be of little or no value if the railroad bridge downstream and the remaining balance of Sulphur Branch were not improved to provide for the drainage. He further stated that the Highway Department would not he willing to expend any funds to make improve - ments if other improvements upstream and downstream from the highway crossing were not made. These improvements, of course, would be required to he funded by others. Mr. Hardie further stated that the Highway Department would be willing to work to coordinate its efforts with others to help alleviate this problem Jim Foster, with the City of Hurst, stated that the 100 -year floodplain area of Sulphur Branch passing through Hurst. is designated as park area to be utilized for the spread of flood waters through that section. It is their intention to utilize the fioodwav in this stretch in its natural. state. Larry Lumm with MK &T Railroad stated that Richard Wagnon would be the individual to address this issue, but he was unable to attend the meeting. Future cor- respondence of this matter should be addressed to Mr. Wagnon. Tom Vogt, with the Corp of Engineers, stated that when the Corp of Engineers helps fund a project, they usually work with one city as the sponsor city. He stated that it is the sponsoring city's responsibility to relocate utilities, bridges, acquire right-of -way, etc. He further stated the Corp has a limit of $5 million available for projects of this type for actual construction of improvements and that the Corp will perform construction on the project. The procedure is begun by the political representative of the sponsoring city, i.e., the mayor, city manager, e.tc, , requesting a study. In this case, because it is a multi - jurisdictional situation, a letter is required from each affected city stating the extent of the problem and requesting the Corp's assistance. Doug Rivers, with the City of Bedford, stated that they have had no actual flooding, but have experienced several close calls, Jane Sanford. stated. that Commissioner Bob Hampton could help in the right -of -way acquisition to the extent that his facilities would be available after their own needs had been met, Tom Hart stated that the City of Euless is ready to take action. He stated his plans to get with the cities of Bedford and Hurst to send a letter to the Corp of Engineers. He further stated the Counci.l would be discussing this as part of an upcoming capital improvements program. Doug Rivers stated that Bedford would submit a letter and would check into the possibility of having funds available for the project. 1987 -162 Sulphur Branch Flooding Meeting July 9, 1987 Page Three Jim Foster stated the City of Hurst would submit a letter, but there were El funds for this project available at this tire. Billy Hardie stated that the Highway Department would be willing to work and be part of the effort, but that funds would be limited to S.H. 10. Larry Lamm stated that he would pass the information on to Richard Wagnon at MKT. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 3 :05 p.m. (_< '"() DIST11J...sI. TED ON . TO (` %Z C.tCL ,t %; 7(- -. - 'rte /7,. # ff, S/